When has religion gone too far?

[Krovisser]

http://www.godhatesfags.com/

This is an actual Church website.

[natesully]

How can they be sure that God hates fags? I certainly don't know whether he does. While the bible may list sodomy as a sin- it's the bible, and therfore up for interpretation.

I'm not the biggest fan of homosexuality, but if people want homosex- that's fine with me. Technically, this website would count as free speech, so they have not gone too far- yet...

PS: Reading a little further, it would appear that these people are slightly crazy ("Muslim fags are using IEDs to blow up American gay army personnel", or something to that effect).

[Daniel]

I didn't view the website, but God is very clearly against homosexuality.

[Krovisser]

But isn't god more about acceptance instead of forcing views on others?

[Krovisser]

I'm not the biggest fan of homosexuality, but if people want homosex- that's fine with me. Technically, this website would count as free speech, so they have not gone too far- yet...

PS: Reading a little further, it would appear that these people are slightly crazy ("Muslim fags are using IEDs to blow up American gay army personnel", or something to that effect).

I'm not talking about the legality of it. Perfectly legal. I'm talking about the ethics of it in relation to the religion it classifies itself in.

[Soulwatcher]

I didn't view the website, but God is very clearly against homosexuality.

I couldn't agree with you more. But today's day and age almost anything is acceptable. A man can have a sex change and turn into a woman. And people will accept him. But who am I to judge, in the end everyone will be judged before God.

[Krovisser]

I couldn't agree with you more. But today's day and age almost anything is acceptable. A man can have a sex change and turn into a woman. And people will accept him. But who am I to judge, in the end everyone will be judged before God.

Right, how can these people possibly think they are serving God by that nonsense?

[Daniel]

But isn't god more about acceptance instead of forcing views on others?

Don't know how you came to that conclusion. Yes, we should accept non-Christians regardless of physical appearance, background, or sexual orientation. However, that doesn't change the fact that they're lifestyle is wrong in the eyes of God. They're in sin, yet they're still people, and still loved by God.

[Krovisser]

Don't know how you came to that conclusion. Yes, we should accept non-Christians regardless of physical appearance, background, or sexual orientation. However, that doesn't change the fact that they're lifestyle is wrong in the eyes of God. They're in sin, yet they're still people, and still loved by God.

I'm under the impression that Xianity is held to only exert their beliefs on those who are willing to hear it, not forcibly. Not that that site is forcing anyone to do anything, it's just rather vulgar.

I would change the website to read: "Godlovesgays.com - God loves you but you must repent"

Or something like that, and explain how to turn, instead of how your gonna burn.

[Double Big J]

I would change the website to read: "Godlovesgays.com - God loves you but you must repent"

Or something like that, and explain how to turn, instead of how your gonna burn.
I agree with this because He loves everybody no matter what. The thing is that He doesn't condone what those people do. If people want to go against God, then it's their choice no matter what people/religion says. They will have to to give the Creator himself their explanation when they meet Him. They will have to live with thier choice. We should explain to them, but not force them.

[Daniel]

I'm under the impression that Xianity is held to only exert their beliefs on those who are willing to hear it, not forcibly. Not that that site is forcing anyone to do anything, it's just rather vulgar.

I would change the website to read: "Godlovesgays.com - God loves you but you must repent"

Or something like that, and explain how to turn, instead of how your gonna burn.

That is, of course, assuming they're genuine believers.

[Mr. Random]

That is, of course, assuming they're genuine believers.

Of course.

[Eddy]

Religion has gone to far when people get hurt - that's the simple answer.

[zacman]

Religion has gone to far when people get hurt - that's the simple answer.


I agree for the most part, and that ideal works for most things in life as well.

[Krovisser]

Religion has gone to far when people get hurt - that's the simple answer.

Physically?

What about constant pressure to change someone's beliefs?

[Mr. Random]

Physically?

What about constant pressure to change someone's beliefs?

I would consider that acceptable as long as they didn't harass the said individual.

[Daniel]

Religion has gone to far when people get hurt - that's the simple answer.

I would agree with this, and also the comment on harrassment.

[Krovisser]

One of the people from Westboro Baptist was on FOX (what a mistake...), and they had their 5 minutes of fame-- i mean 5 minutes of looking like the nuts they are.

[Daniel]

One of the people from Westboro Baptist was on FOX (what a mistake...), and they had their 5 minutes of fame-- i mean 5 minutes of looking like the nuts they are.

Care to run that by me again?

[Adstar]

But isn't god more about acceptance instead of forcing views on others?


Hello Krovisser :)

God is not about acceptance of sin. God is about forgiveness of sin to those who acknowledge their sin and seek Gods forgiveness.

Love the sinner reject the sin.

We can accept and seek to help a sinner without accepting the sin they commit.

God does not accept any sin. But God through the Messiah Jesus saves sinners.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[Krovisser]

Care to run that by me again?

http://www.thatvideosite.com/view/2178.html

The surrounding content is not exactly work safe, or whathaveyou.

[Krovisser]

Hello Krovisser :)

God is not about acceptance of sin. God is about forgiveness of sin to those who acknowledge their sin and seek Gods forgiveness.

Love the sinner reject the sin.

We can accept and seek to help a sinner without accepting the sin they commit.

God does not accept any sin. But God through the Messiah Jesus saves sinners.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Right, so those people of westboro baptist should be trying to help positively, instead of spread hate and blame everywhere.

[Adstar]

Right, so those people of westboro baptist should be trying to help positively, instead of spread hate and blame everywhere.

The people of westboro baptist are responsible for their own actions and words in relation to this issue.

If they are hating the sinner then they are not following Jesus in the right spirit. We are called to love others and share with them the knowledge of the forgiveness we have obtained through the Messiah Jesus.

There is of course the other extreme. Some churches have gone the other way and actively promote acceptance of the act of Homosexuality. That is they teach that the sexual act of homosexuality is good. This is also wrong.

The proper position is to reveal the will of God on the matter of the sin but also to reveal the forgiveness available to the sinner through the Messiah Jesus. In this way truth is not compromised out of a misguided focus on total acceptance. Nor is rejection of the Homosexual combined with the rejection of the Homosexual sexual act.


I hope this has helped clear up any confusion.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[Daniel]

While I vaughly agree with some of the points that they believe in, they are going about it in a completely wrong method. One shouldn't attempt to praise God for death and destruction - though he may have it in his will. One should love people to Jesus, rather than scare them away.

[johnlubic]

And if a man lie with mankind, as with womankind, both of them have committed abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. - Leviticus 20:13

Doesn't get much more clear-cut than that. This is another example of God advocating murder.

[Daniel]

And if a man lie with mankind, as with womankind, both of them have committed abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. - Leviticus 20:13

Doesn't get much more clear-cut than that. This is another example of God advocating murder.

This is the old law set down by Moses in the Old Testament. Following Jesus' teachings, this is no longer applicable.

[johnlubic]

This is the old law set down by Moses in the Old Testament. Following Jesus' teachings, this is no longer applicable.


I'm not familiar with the New Testament verse that overrides this. What is it?

Also, Christianity teaches that Jesus is God.
Christianity teaches that God is infallible.
To claim that Jesus taught that God was wrong when he instructed Moses of this law would be to claim that God erred, meaning God is NOT infallible, meaning that God is not God.

[Krovisser]

Yeah, I copy-pasted a bunch of it. I was in no mood to research.:o

[Adstar]

I'm not familiar with the New Testament verse that overrides this. What is it?

Also, Christianity teaches that Jesus is God.
Christianity teaches that God is infallible.
To claim that Jesus taught that God was wrong when he instructed Moses of this law would be to claim that God erred, meaning God is NOT infallible, meaning that God is not God.


Jesus never proclaimed the homosexual act as being good. So Jesus did not change the law that the Homosexual act is an abomination to God and those who commit this sin will suffer death.

What has changed is How the law is carried out. The Law is still active because God will carry out the death penalty in eternity. But we Christians are told By the Messiah Jesus to no longer carry out the penalty.

We just warn others of the eternal penalty of sin and tell them of the eternal solution.

God is infallible He knows what He is doing. :)


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[johnlubic]

Jesus never proclaimed the homosexual act as being good. So Jesus did not change the law that the Homosexual act is an abomination to God and those who commit this sin will suffer death.

What has changed is How the law is carried out. The Law is still active because God will carry out the death penalty in eternity. But we Christians are told By the Messiah Jesus to no longer carry out the penalty.

We just warn others of the eternal penalty of sin and tell them of the eternal solution.


How is this not changing God's law again? It certainly is. This seems to me like an attempt to explain away a clear biblical contradiction.

[Adstar]

G'Day johnlubic :)

John The penalty for sin is death in the OT right?

The penalty for sin in the NT is death also right?

The death penalty will be carried out in the New as in the Old. The law is the same. Sin is still sin and the penalty is still the same, death.

If a government makes a LAW that the penalty for Drug smuggling is death by firing squad, but then 10 years later it states that the Law now is death by lethal injection, has the law really changed? Does it make a difference if one is killed by group of Solders firing guns or if one is killed by a Doctor using a needle? The end result is the same the law breaker dies.

The Law is the same it is just the mechanism for carrying out the Law has changed.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[goblin paste]

http://www.godhatesfags.com/

This is an actual Church website.
Add this to the list: www.xxxchurch.com

[Daniel]

Anyone can say they're Christian or a or Christian church.

[Daniel]

I'm not familiar with the New Testament verse that overrides this. What is it?

Also, Christianity teaches that Jesus is God.
Christianity teaches that God is infallible.
To claim that Jesus taught that God was wrong when he instructed Moses of this law would be to claim that God erred, meaning God is NOT infallible, meaning that God is not God.


Romans 10:4 - Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

Galations 3:23-25 - Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by fiath. Now that fiath has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.

Ephesians 2:15 - ...by abolising in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace...

The above verses basically say Jesus Christ came and voided the law in replacement by taking our place for our sin.

Also, in your above philosophy you are flawed. You state that God is infallible if Jesus taught against God's law. This is incorrect. If Jesus is God, he is simply changing his mind (though I believe this is not what is happening in such a situation)

[Raphael]

I'm not familiar with the New Testament verse that overrides this. What is it?

Also, Christianity teaches that Jesus is God.
Christianity teaches that God is infallible.
To claim that Jesus taught that God was wrong when he instructed Moses of this law would be to claim that God erred, meaning God is NOT infallible, meaning that God is not God.
Romans 13:8 Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.
9 For this, "YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, YOU SHALL NOT MURDER, YOU SHALL NOT STEAL, YOU SHALL NOT COVET," and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."
10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Matthew 5:38 ¶ "You have heard that it was said, ‘AN EYE FOR AN EYE, AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH.’
39 "But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.
40 "If anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, let him have your coat also.
41 "Whoever forces you to go one mile, go with him two.
42 "Give to him who asks of you, and do not turn away from him who wants to borrow from you.
43 ¶ "You have heard that it was said, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.’
44 "But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
46 "For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?
47 "If you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same?
48 "Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.