India Train Blast

[Daniel]

Eight explosions hit Mumbai's transit system during rush hour; up to 147 dead, over 400 injured.

Here (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,202920,00.html).

[Adstar]

Eight explosions hit Mumbai's transit system during rush hour; up to 147 dead, over 400 injured.

Here (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,202920,00.html).

Yes the true muslims are engaging in jihad actions in india. they are following the call of muhammed to bring terror to the infidels.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[butcher]

Yes the true muslims are engaging in jihad actions in india. they are following the call of muhammed to bring terror to the infidels.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

I heard that these bombers wants a independent Kashmir.They hate both Pakistan and India.

[Julie]

This type of news while very sad, is getting to be far to redundant for me! If these countries don't rise up against the terrorists then this kinda crap will go on forever. The good ole U.S. of A can't continue to fight all their battles for them and they obviously aren't doing enough to take care of their own problems, hence the term "THIRD WORLD" :rolleyes:.

[Panthrophile]

This type of news while very sad, is getting to be far to redundant for me! If these countries don't rise up against the terrorists then this kinda crap will go on forever. The good ole U.S. of A can't continue to fight all their battles for them and they obviously aren't doing enough to take care of their own problems, hence the term "THIRD WORLD" :rolleyes:.
India doesn't typically fall into 'these countries', why do you think it belongs with them? What common charactoristics unite the 'these countries' group?

I would say, you've no idea what you're talking about; you're just taking a blind-stab at some far-off land a little different than yours. Yes?

[Adstar]

I heard that these bombers wants a independent Kashmir.They hate both Pakistan and India.

I am sure they do hate the political leadership in Pakistan. True muslims see most the leaders in muslims countries as being corrupt and tools of the west. General Misharef (spelling) the president of Pakistan is looked upon as being a lacky of the USA.

True muslims seek to establish by jihad a global islamic state so they can not support any entity that does not work to that aim. Maybe if Pakistan starts a war against India designed to eliminate all hindus, they will be loved by true muslims. But i cannot see that happening in the near future.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[Bennett_Star]

I am sure they do hate the political leadership in Pakistan. True muslims see most the leaders in muslims countries as being corrupt and tools of the west. General Misharef (spelling) the president of Pakistan is looked upon as being a lacky of the USA.

True muslims seek to establish by jihad a global islamic state so they can not support any entity that does not work to that aim. Maybe if Pakistan starts a war against India designed to eliminate all hindus, they will be loved by true muslims. But i cannot see that happening in the near future.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

How is it that you know what "true Muslims" actually want? 99% of all Muslims do NOT do what you say.

[Adstar]

How is it that you know what "true Muslims" actually want? 99% of all Muslims do NOT do what you say.

If 99% of "muslims" do not agree with it, then 99% of "muslims" are not true to the call of muhammed.

The Quran expressly calls on all followers of allah to wage jihad until the whole would submits to the religion of islam. They must fight until all people in this world acknowledge allah as God and muhammed as his prophet and all non-believers are wiped out.

True muslims head the call of the Quran:

Qur’an 9:5 “Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”

Qur’an 8:39 “Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah.”

Qur’an 9:123 “Fight the unbelievers around you, and let them find harshness in you.”

Qur’an 8:39 “So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world).”

Qur’an 8:65 “O Prophet, urge the faithful to fight. If there are twenty among you with determination they will vanquish two hundred; if there are a hundred then they will slaughter a thousand unbelievers, for the infidels are a people devoid of understanding.”

Qur’an 9:38 “Believers, what is the matter with you, that when you are asked to go forth and fight in Allah’s Cause you cling to the earth? Do you prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? Unless you go forth, He will afflict and punish you with a painful doom, and put others in your place.”

Qur’an 5:94 “Believers, Allah will make a test for you in the form of a little game in which you reach out for your lances. Any who fails this test will have a grievous punishment.”

Qur’an 61:2 “O Muslims, why say one thing and do another? Grievously odious and hateful is it in the sight of Allah that you say that which you do not. Truly Allah loves those who fight in His Cause in a battle array, as if they were a solid cemented structure.”

Qur’an 8:7 “Allah wished to confirm the truth by His words: ‘Wipe the infidels out to the last.’”


If a person claims to believe in allah and muhammed as his prophet then they must agree with the above calls to wipe out the infidels to the last. If not then their claim to be true muslims is a hollow claim.

The same thing goes for Christians. Many Christians are in the same boat, they claim to believe in God and believe in the Words of Jesus but many of them are also making a hollow claim.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[Panthrophile]

Adstar, which translation are you citing? What is the original text?

Jihad (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jihad#Classifications_of_Jihad_by_Muslims) is a terribly broad term, you see, and can really mean anything at all so long as it is difficult and somehow serves Allah. To try and better understand the Qur'an is Jihad. To care for your aging mother is Jihad. To denounce these bombings and try to promote peace and tolerance, as Allah likes both, would also be Jihad.

From the Yusif Ali translation:

060.007 - It may be that Allah will grant love (and friendship) between you and those whom ye (now) hold as enemies. For Allah has power (over all things); And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

060.008 - Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just.

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/060.qmt.html

[Panthrophile]

I was discussing this thread with a Muslim lad from the Internet and thought I would post bits of that conversation here for interest’s sake.

Me:http://www.lifeisadisease.com/showthread.php?p=7049#post7049

I do not understand the concept of Jihad well, but from what I've been reading tonight, I think it is.

Him: Now, in the modern phase of Islam, killing somebody is not treated good. Islamic fa'qihs [religious scholars] are thinking that respecting people's beliefs is the best. Anyways, converting somebody to Islam, with the agreement of both sides, is very good for two.

Him: Jihad is not something to make the world peaceful and tolerant. Prophet Mohammad and his Halifas fought, because they were slaughtered by other religions. But then, the other Halifas, understood it wrong.

Me: Yes. But Allah prefers peace, correct? So if peace can be had, then it is serving Allah to have it?

Him: The service is understood wrong. Islamic missionary can be considered good. Converting people by not slaughtering them is good. But killing, how come, it opposes to the Islamic philosophy.

Him: Qur’an 9:5 “Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”

I don't know this a'jet. This is probably a false translation.


Me: Yes. There are many terrible translations meant to demonize Muslims. Americans tend to quote them to justify war in the Middle-East and hostility towards countries like Iran.

Him: In Islam, actually, a friendship is offered between the three religions : Christianity, Islam, and Jewism.

Me: The Yusuf Ali translation is: "But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful."

What are the forbidden months?

Him: This is probably a false translation to English. Forbidden month!?
Him: Well, Qu'ran is very hard to translate into English. Ah, it's considered the first four months of Hij'ra calendar. No, not the first four... Muharram, Rajab,Zilkade and Zilhicce are not war times.

Him: The entire Qur'an, taken as a complete text, gives a message of hope, faith, and peace to a faith community of one billion people. The overwhelming message is that peace is to be found through faith in God, and justice among fellow human beings.

Him: If anyone slays a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew all people. And if anyone saves a life, it would be as if he saved the life of all people.
Qur'an 5:32

Him: At the time the Qur'an was revealed (7th century A.D.), there was no United Nations or Amnesty International to keep the peace or expose injustice. Inter-tribal violence and vengeance was commonplace. As a matter of survival, one must have been willing to defend against aggression from all sides. Nevertheless, the Qur'an repeatedly urges forgiveness and restraint, and warns believers not to "transgress" or become "oppressors."

http://islam.about.com/library/weekly/aa090402a.htm

Him: Us, the modern muslims, hate islami terrorists.And, also the Turkish Religional Commitee (that's apart from the State, an independent comitee) called the terrorists to end their slaughter to people of other religions.

The true peace,prosperity and nice order will be obtained in the paradise, maybe.

Me: What does Fi’quhs mean?

Him: Fi'qih, is the job of developing new thoughts about islam,using Prophet's words, Quran, and words of who saw Prophet, These new thoughts are generally for making Muslims ready for future and 21st century.

An example: Any printed or drawn thing was forbidden in the old days of Islam.

But as muslims didn't leave islam and start believing in the sculptures,pictures et cetera, the fa'qihs told printed, drawn things and sculpture is no more forbidden.

The same goes for music, Islami people thought music was forbidden, but fa'qihs found out it was not even forbidden at Prophet's time.

Him: Islam is peaceful, and will last the same till the Last Judgement.

Me: Aye. I still don't quite understand what Jihad is, though.

Him: Jihad is a scum, probably. It's cihat in Turkish. Jihad is asked as a defence.
If the people of other religion try to slaughter you,you must defend yourself, not slaughter them.

The terrorism can be proven wrong there.

And as the UN is a Christian alliance, they don't bother to ask USA to stop the slaughter.

Me: I am confused by this, though. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jihad#Classifications_of_Jihad_by_Muslims
Is that accurate?

Him: Let me have a look...
Heart/soul --->true
Tongue ---> True too.
Pen&Knowledge ---> True
Hand, means the Hajj only -----> True
Sword, is written a very broad and bad term here, it's the defence only.

you can't kill a creature made by God, unless he/she/it doesn't try to kill you.

Even before Muhammad conducted Jihad by sword against the unbelievers, there is no doubt the Prophet (s) invited these unbelievers peacefully, lodged protests against their beliefs and strove to remove their misgivings about Islam.

When they refused any other solution, but rather declared a war against him and his message and initiated the fight, there was no alternative except to fight back

Me: I think I know understand the purpose of cihat. It is not simply doing anything that Allah would like but it is doing something to defend the Islamic community.

Him: Islam doesn't promote terror.

That's all to say.

[Adstar]

Him: Now, in the modern phase of Islam, killing somebody is not treated good. Islamic fa'qihs [religious scholars] are thinking that respecting people's beliefs is the best. Anyways, converting somebody to Islam, with the agreement of both sides, is very good for two.

Here this muslim clearly tells you there is a difference between the "modern" interpretation and the original truth of the calls. This person is in disagreement with the original interpretation of Jihad. The "modern" interpretation is false because it goes against the original intent of muhammads words. He is describing a religion that has been twisted from its original intent to make it more acceptable to the modern adherents who no longer want to take part in actual Jihad but want to reinterpret the word to mean anything other than its original meaning as delivered by muhammed. Jihad as simply working to preach islam or support islam is not what Jihad truly is, And a percentage of muslims know just what Jihad actually means and are seeking to carry it out with bombs and butchers knives on the internet. You only need 5% of muslims to understand the true meaning of Jihad to cause global strife and WW3.

I don't really have to work to hard to prove this, Just look around the world on all the borders of islam. Chechnya, Sudan, the Philippines, Thailand, India the Balkans, Nigeria, and more. The proof of the pudding is in the eating not in someone’s recipe.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[butcher]

If 99% of "muslims" do not agree with it, then 99% of "muslims" are not true to the call of muhammed.

The Quran expressly calls on all followers of allah to wage jihad until the whole would submits to the religion of islam. They must fight until all people in this world acknowledge allah as God and muhammed as his prophet and all non-believers are wiped out.

True muslims head the call of the Quran:

Qur’an 9:5 “Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”

Qur’an 8:39 “Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah.”

Qur’an 9:123 “Fight the unbelievers around you, and let them find harshness in you.”

Qur’an 8:39 “So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world).”

Qur’an 8:65 “O Prophet, urge the faithful to fight. If there are twenty among you with determination they will vanquish two hundred; if there are a hundred then they will slaughter a thousand unbelievers, for the infidels are a people devoid of understanding.”

Qur’an 9:38 “Believers, what is the matter with you, that when you are asked to go forth and fight in Allah’s Cause you cling to the earth? Do you prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? Unless you go forth, He will afflict and punish you with a painful doom, and put others in your place.”

Qur’an 5:94 “Believers, Allah will make a test for you in the form of a little game in which you reach out for your lances. Any who fails this test will have a grievous punishment.”

Qur’an 61:2 “O Muslims, why say one thing and do another? Grievously odious and hateful is it in the sight of Allah that you say that which you do not. Truly Allah loves those who fight in His Cause in a battle array, as if they were a solid cemented structure.”

Qur’an 8:7 “Allah wished to confirm the truth by His words: ‘Wipe the infidels out to the last.’”


If a person claims to believe in allah and muhammed as his prophet then they must agree with the above calls to wipe out the infidels to the last. If not then their claim to be true muslims is a hollow claim.

The same thing goes for Christians. Many Christians are in the same boat, they claim to believe in God and believe in the Words of Jesus but many of them are also making a hollow claim.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

u ar using parts of Quran to describe certain things. These conditions were applied on diifferent situations.

[Bennett_Star]

He is describing a religion that has been twisted from its original intent to make it more acceptable to the modern adherents who no longer want to take part in actual Jihad but want to reinterpret the word to mean anything other than its original meaning as delivered by muhammed.
What are The Old and New Testaments about then? And is it hard to believe that there might be something lost in the English translation of the Qur'an?

I don't really have to work to hard to prove this, Just look around the world on all the borders of islam. Chechnya, Sudan, the Philippines, Thailand, India the Balkans, Nigeria, and more. The proof of the pudding is in the eating not in someone’s recipe.
Historically, Christianity has had its bad "eating". But I am not going to sit here and tell you that everyone apart of Christianity is evil (or wants to commit particular evil actions as you have said) and I would expect the same from you about other faiths. All of your arguments can easily be reversed on to Christianity and quite unfairly stereotype ALL Christians. I could bring up similarly evil Christian quotes from the Bible, but that doesn't mean Christians are universally bad. There are numerous things in the Bible I hope you don't allow to influence you in their apparent or literal translation, yet you can still call yourself a Christian.

All Muslims are individuals, and I only ask that you do not stereotype them with the actions of a few extremists. Christianity would not appear well in any light using this same stereotyping. Christians, Jews, and Muslims alike can be great people, on a personal and worldwide level (and have been as well). I do not believe that Islam is right, but I do not like the constant Islam bashing before taking all the facts into account. It hits a nerve when I see anyone unfairly characterized.

[Panthrophile]

Here this muslim clearly tells you there is a difference between the "modern" interpretation and the original truth of the calls. This person is in disagreement with the original interpretation of Jihad.
Not at all. Originally, Jihad was nothing more that a struggle to somehow protect Muslim values and please Allah. It so happened that in the time of Muhammad there were Pagen tribes attacking Muslims and killing them. To protect Islam from the idolators was Jihad. If these tribes stopped attacking Muslims, then killing them stopped being Jihad. Islam absolutely doesnot require hostility towards non-Muslims.

060.008 - Yusuf Ali translation.
"Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just."

The "modern" interpretation is false because it goes against the original intent of muhammads words.
First, you've no idea what Muhammad's words were; you don't even know how they've been translated. You don't know the context and you don't know the implications. You have absolutely no credibility above the fa'qihs.

Secondly, it seems quite clear from what little I've read of the Qur'an that Muhammad was talking about the Pagan tribes that were attacking the Muslims and that he was entirely adamant that if peace can be made with the tribes and it was possible for them to be treated justly that they should.

This what Muhammad had to say on Muslims interacting with Christians and Jews:

002.109 - Yusuf Ali translation
Quite a number of the People of the Book wish they could Turn you (people) back to infidelity after ye have believed, from selfish envy, after the Truth hath become Manifest unto them: But forgive and overlook, Till Allah accomplish His purpose; for Allah Hath power over all things.

Jihad as simply working to preach islam or support islam is not what Jihad truly is, And a percentage of muslims know just what Jihad actually means and are seeking to carry it out with bombs and butchers knives on the internet. You only need 5% of muslims to understand the true meaning of Jihad to cause global strife and WW3.
Switch to the BBC, dear.

I don't really have to work to hard to prove this, Just look around the world on all the borders of islam. Chechnya, Sudan, the Philippines, Thailand, India the Balkans, Nigeria, and more. The proof of the pudding is in the eating not in someone’s recipe.
Balls. Religious conflict doesnot equal megalomaniac holy war. And none of your examples are as simple as Muslims killing non-Muslims. You've seperatists and communists and despots and mineral veins and international pressures and cultural divisions and historic feuds and colonial ideals and deep-water harbours and poor farm land weighing heavily on those conflicts. This is much more than just the Jihad that you hear about on FOX NEWS.

[Adstar]

Not at all. Originally, Jihad was nothing more that a struggle to somehow protect Muslim values and please Allah. It so happened that in the time of Muhammad there were Pagen tribes attacking Muslims and killing them. To protect Islam from the idolators was Jihad. If these tribes stopped attacking Muslims, then killing them stopped being Jihad. Islam absolutely doesnot require hostility towards non-Muslims.

060.008 - Yusuf Ali translation.
"Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just."


First, you've no idea what Muhammad's words were; you don't even know how they've been translated. You don't know the context and you don't know the implications. You have absolutely no credibility above the fa'qihs.

Secondly, it seems quite clear from what little I've read of the Qur'an that Muhammad was talking about the Pagan tribes that were attacking the Muslims and that he was entirely adamant that if peace can be made with the tribes and it was possible for them to be treated justly that they should.

This what Muhammad had to say on Muslims interacting with Christians and Jews:

002.109 - Yusuf Ali translation
Quite a number of the People of the Book wish they could Turn you (people) back to infidelity after ye have believed, from selfish envy, after the Truth hath become Manifest unto them: But forgive and overlook, Till Allah accomplish His purpose; for Allah Hath power over all things.


Switch to the BBC, dear.


Balls. Religious conflict doesnot equal megalomaniac holy war. And none of your examples are as simple as Muslims killing non-Muslims. You've seperatists and communists and despots and mineral veins and international pressures and cultural divisions and historic feuds and colonial ideals and deep-water harbours and poor farm land weighing heavily on those conflicts. This is much more than just the Jihad that you hear about on FOX NEWS.


I do not get Fox news. I don't live in the USA. Why is it that most Americans seem think everyone lives in the USA or watches American news??? Do you know American is 7% of the world’s population living on 5% of the world’s land mass.

Sometimes i get the impression that americans think that there is one continent on planet earth called north america and there are a few islands off it's coast called europe africa and asia.

You keep on desperately holding on to the hope that the world is all ice cream and apple pie and allowing yourself to be brainwashed because you do not want to face the reality of the terror that is coming to the earth. It will not save you or your loved ones from what is about to come to fruition.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[Illuminatus]

You can take quotes out of the Koran all day, it's irrelevant.

Anyone who's head isn't up their arse can quite clearly see all these conflicts are political.

[System_0101]

You only need 5% of muslims to understand the true meaning of Jihad to cause global strife and WW3.

I bet it's less. But you have to count extremist Christians and Jews too. Islam isn't the only religion that breeds zealots.

You keep on desperately holding on to the hope that the world is all ice cream and apple pie and allowing yourself to be brainwashed because you do not want to face the reality of the terror that is coming to the earth. It will not save you or your loved ones from what is about to come to fruition.

Terror? The only thing I see coming to fruition is the willful destruction of the world, and I believe it will be precipitated by holy war. Of the extremist christian and/or extremist jewish strain. Make no mistake of who has the bigger guns, and it's clear the extremist Christians squatting in the white house intend to use them.

And, as an American, I do occasionally watch FAUX news. I need a little comedy in my life. It's just sad that people who watch that channel are allowed to vote.

[Daniel]

I bet it's less. But you have to count extremist Christians and Jews too. Islam isn't the only religion that breeds zealots.

True, but Islam seems to breed a much higher percentage.

[Samewu]

Great information

[Viety Cent]

i heard this in the news wat a terrible death

[Panthrophile]

If an flood had killed twice as many Indians no-one in the west would have raised an eyebrow. It's not dead Indians that bother us; it's Islamic bombs.

[Daniel]

If an flood had killed twice as many Indians no-one in the west would have raised an eyebrow. It's not dead Indians that bother us; it's Islamic bombs.

True, though 'tis a bit sad we think that way. While both would be preventable to a certain extent, in theory, it'd be much easier to stop terror. Plus there's the threat to ourselves.