Hell

[JeremiahGateFan]

Hell (http://www.what-the-hell-is-hell.com/teeth.htm).....I thought this website was interesting. You should check it out....I think it has the potential to put to rest this christian concept of hell where people eternally suffer.

[zrts2002]

Hell (http://www.what-the-hell-is-hell.com/teeth.htm).....I thought this website was interesting. You should check it out....I think it has the potential to put to rest this christian concept of hell where people eternally suffer.

Hmm. Interesting. It really did clear the concept.

[Daniel]

^ don't believe everything you read.

I'd be willing to discuss this if you brought up a specific point. What, that there is no hell?

[JeremiahGateFan]

I'll take the first one. It's a hell of a lot of reading but scroll down to the bottom and you'll find a list of scriptures. Obviously, God, being an ifallible being, could not fail to accomplish his will.

[zrts2002]

But in the "after life", and if people, don't get into heaven, they either stay in the body to sleep forever, or they go to hell. What do you think?

[JeremiahGateFan]

I think you don't quite understand the point. God WOULD not create with the intent to destroy. God WOULD not bless with the intent to curse. God WOULD not give joy with the intent to give sorrow. It is illogical, and it does not make since, and I have been convinced by the website I posted that the early Christians agreed with me that there can be no hell. Unless those who go don't have souls but trust me, I've met neo-pagans who have more of a soul than any Catholic, but Catholics don't have ........actually, I'm not going to go there, I have stated my points.

[MisterHoho]

So God never cursed anyone? Have you read the Bible?

[JeremiahGateFan]

No, I don't think you understood my point. It's not that God wouldn't hurt people, its that he would have to have a reason. I read Job and it fits right in to everything I said in my previous post. I'm not convinced by this idea that God was simply trying to prove a point to Satan and if that is the case, God is evil so it cannot be the case. God did not give joy with the intent to curse which is what I said he would not do. God did curse with the intent to bless. If the only difference between Job before and after was his pride for what he had done, and for the role he would play in Judaism and Christianity in the future, he was blessed enough and I suspect he probably was rewarded even more then that. Now what would not make since would be for God to keep people in the dark with eartly joys wondering trying to fulfill themself with all the rich people stuff of the world completely left in the dark and then one day he just snatches it all away and sends them to hell. A better example would be any non-christian middle to upper class American. We are blessed people and yet if the Christian God is as unjust as a Christian would leave you to believe we're all going to hell. It just doesn't make since because most of us want to know the truth.(Not speaking for America, but for this city)

[MisterHoho]

God also cursed people that pissed him off. In fact, I would say that most of his cursing was due to this. God wasn't the kind of guy you'd want to be enemies with in the Old Testament.

[JeremiahGateFan]

But God knew those people would betray him. So why would he destroy their cities and give them plagues?

[MisterHoho]

I'm sorry? That post really didn't make much sense to me. It seemed rather ztrs2002-esque, no offense.

[JeremiahGateFan]

Allright let me say that a little bit better. God created those people's souls along with every fault that would ultimately lead them to betray him. Why would he do that? He created them, giving them all the faults and all the evil and then punished them for falling. That doesn't make since. You do believe that God creates faults correct? And that he could predict all the actions humanity would take from the point of creation to the end, correct? Well, if that's the case, it would not be logical for God to kill people off. I'm starting to wonder if the Sodom and Gomorah thing was a myth started by an asteroid or something.

[MisterHoho]

God doesn't make sin/make us sin, we have free will.

[aleksbmk]

God already knows everything it is we who need to find out for ourselves what will happen.Thats the interesting part...

[zrts2002]

But what if there is no God?

[Ra's Al Ghul]

Hell doesn't exist but if one was hard pressed to describe a hell this human existance is a good place to start.

[VinceBlaze]

Hell doesn't existhow do you know?

but if one was hard pressed to describe a hell this human existance is a good place to start.thats only if youre poor

[Ra's Al Ghul]

how do you know?

thats only if youre poor

how do you know?

Because I have firm understanding that religion is a civic device for control and subjugation with the concept of hell being one of them along the understanding of what certain men call god.

thats only if youre poor

I am and unemployed too.

I am a man stripped of all his purpose and dignity.

Soon though I shall reclaim both back whether society let's me or not.

[VinceBlaze]

Because I have firm understanding that religion is a civic device for control and subjugation with the concept of hell being one of them along the understanding of what certain men call god.this may depend upon one's definition of 'hell'

I am a man stripped of all his purpose and dignity.based on whose standards? yours or others?

Soon though I shall reclaim both back whether society let's me or not.through what path?

i suggest that our inner resources are infinite; but if we do not realize this, it is best to reclaim our equality only from the rich and/or large organizations; we should never engage in such reclamation from those who have less than us; nor should we commonly afflict individuals as opposed to wealthy organizations

[Ra's Al Ghul]

this may depend upon one's definition of 'hell'

based on whose standards? yours or others?

through what path?

i suggest that our inner resources are infinite; but if we do not realize this, it is best to reclaim our equality only from the rich and/or large organizations; we should never engage in such reclamation from those who have less than us; nor should we commonly afflict individuals as opposed to wealthy organizations

this may depend upon one's definition of 'hell'

My definition.

based on whose standards? yours or others?

Society's

through what path?

Any and all necessary paths that will allow me to live in freedom.

i suggest that our inner resources are infinite; but if we do not realize this, it is best to reclaim our equality only from the rich and/or large organizations; we should never engage in such reclamation from those who have less than us; nor should we commonly afflict individuals as opposed to wealthy organizations

The rich and the upper middle class is the only people I despise.

I have a personal code of acknowledging people of the lower class to be in the same predicament as myself.

[VinceBlaze]

My definition.how do you define 'hell' in the context of your usage? which 'hell' are you talking about?

Any and all necessary paths that will allow me to live in freedom.please define 'freedom' in the context of your usage; what specific freedoms are you seeking?

The rich and the upper middle class is the only people I despise.polarization against a certain class can often lead to replication of their own nature and/or actions within our own lifestyles; he who fights with monsters will become a monster; this occurs in the context of mirrored actions

I have a personal code of acknowledging people of the lower class to be in the same predicament as myself.i suggest that you would be considered rich by many countries; and they despise you for it; delineations of upper and lower class are often relative to our immediate environments; how do you precisely delineate between rich and poor? what measure do you use?

[zrts2002]

I think he means hell as in the context of fire, tourture, satanic, etc.

[VinceBlaze]

I think he means hell as in the context of fire, tourture, satanic, etc.the reason that i ask is because hell concepts vary among the religious, although some hell concepts are more popular (or perhaps infamous) than others

[zrts2002]

the reason that i ask is because hell concepts vary among the religious, although some hell concepts are more popular (or perhaps infamous) than others

Hmm, you do have a good point. But most of the time, that is what the definition of 'hell' is in most religions.

[VinceBlaze]

But most of the time, that is what the definition of 'hell' is in most religions.some believe that the hells are a self-created illusion that people may slip into in the afterlife, as opposed to a place fashioned by a divine entity

[zrts2002]

some believe that the hells are a self-created illusion that people may slip into in the afterlife, as opposed to a place fashioned by a divine entity

Under what circum stance. By also going to Peligimey, paying for all of their sins, and then they burn for an eternety. Right??

[VinceBlaze]

By also going to Peligimey, paying for all of their sins, and then they burn for an eternety. Right??actually, no, but you can continue to believe that of others' theology if you want

[zrts2002]

actually, no, but you can continue to believe that of others' theology if you want

The only reason that I say that is because I don't want to make fun of anybody's religion, but in the Christian religion, that is what it usually is.

[VinceBlaze]

The only reason that I say that is because I don't want to make fun of anybody's religion, but in the Christian religion, that is what it usually is.the following term 'forever and ever' is often more appropriately interpreted as 'eons/eternities' (plural) by many scholars, but westerners seem to have superimposed a false sense of permanency over the original greek

Revelation 20:10
And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
(NAS95)

Revelation 20:10
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
(KJV)

saying 'forever and ever' would be like saying 'eternity and a day', being inherently contradictory in and of itself; but what is actually being denoted in this verse is a plurality of eternities (or eons)

herein lies a critical differentiation between modernized western christianity versus ancient eastern christianity; they are virtually two different religions with only nominal similarities; it is good not to confuse the two belief systems, for they are very much at odds with each other

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